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奥斯卡·契柯尼:阿修罗宇宙让我收不住脑洞

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站酷专访《阿修罗》电影美术总监奥斯卡·契柯尼(Oscar Chichoni)


嘉宾简介 :     


意大利裔阿根廷设计师。他在过去几十年里为无数全球知名刊物创作封面与插画。此后他又与弗朗西斯·科波拉、彼得·杰克 逊、吉尔莫·德尔·托罗等在电影领域合作。他参与的电影《乱世情缘》获得了1995 年奥斯卡最佳美术指导奖。近年还参与制作了《加勒比海盗4》《环太平洋》《环太平洋2》《猩红山峰》等多部电影制作。2016年,他参与由张鹏执导,吴磊、梁家辉、刘嘉玲领衔主演的奇幻动作电影《阿修罗》,担任美术总监。


《阿修罗》定档于2018年7月13日全球上映。日前“寻找阿修罗王—电影《阿修罗》三头欲王同人主题海报大赛”在站酷网的征集活动也接近尾声。站酷网受邀专访《阿修罗》电影美术总监奥斯卡·契柯尼(Oscar Chichoni),这位设计师,插画师和电影艺术工作者和我们聊了聊他的电影美术之路和《阿修罗》电影背后的故事,他希望大家能被现象级的场景设计惊艳到。


《阿修罗》电影海报

    

站酷网:很惊讶您是通过自学掌握了人体解剖学,利用颜色和光线等等专业问题,能聊聊您的自学经历吗?您认为自己是一个有天赋的人吗?


契柯尼:是, 我是自学的, 但我当时做的是类似于早年西方古典艺术学院会做的那种个人研究,现在已经没有这种学院了。在那些学院里,人体结构、构图和色彩是学习根基,这些仍是当今具象艺术的基础,比如电影与游戏里的插画、设计。一个优秀设计师的重要能力是要懂得如何流畅地作画,而人体结构大概是学习绘画中最重要的一环。画面构图和色彩也是同等重要和复杂的学问。我认为自己是一个有才华的人吗?我自己不敢这么说,但是我得过不少国际奖项,这些评委们是认可我在这个领域里的才华的。

Chichoni:Yes, I am self-taught, but I did personal studies similar to the western classical arts academies (which no longer exist). In thise academies, the study of anatomy, composition and color were fundamental and remain fundamental in the current figurative arts such as illustration, design in film and videogames, for example.The key ability of a good designer is to know how to draw fluently and the study of human anatomy is perhaps the most important thing to learn to draw. Composition and color are equally important and complex studies.If I consider myself a talented person ?. Well, I could not say, but I have many international awards from juries that did consider me a person of talent in the sector.


以往作品:Vehicles—Film&Video Games(图源自官网)


站酷网
:您画过漫画,画过封面插画,也为很多电影和游戏做概念设计,美术指导,办展览,不同的艺术门类在你看来是触类旁通的吗?你认为一个艺术家应该更多接触不同的艺术门类吗?

    

契柯尼:我的这些经历都在我的作品演变历程里。我17岁时开始与一些有名的漫画家一起画漫画,做得还算不错。但是因为我想进一步了解色彩与构图,所以我转到油画,画了两年。然后,结合漫画与油画的经验,我开始画插画。我管我的风格叫“叙事插画”,因为可以用一张画讲一个故事。我以插画师的身份在不同的国家里磨炼了许多年。后来我在游戏产业里当过概念设计师和美术指导。当时,我的优势是,因为之前学习漫画,我了解视觉性故事的多样性,又因为画过油画和插画,我熟悉怎样在一张图里就能表达想法。而我在游戏产业里获得了大量经验,包括完成一个完整的项目设计和领导艺术创作团队。当我终于进入影视行业,因为其多样性和注重视觉的属性,我再一次用上了先前漫画、油画、插画、游戏的经验。从中,你也可以看出这几个行业之间是有共通之处的,并且我觉得每一个电影艺术的同行都会经历类似的过程。在我的电影工作中,其实我每天都能体会到我在这几个领域里的经验给我带来的便利。

Chichoni:The evolution of my work includes all those experiences. I started when I was 17 years old doing comic with famous artists and I did it very well.But I wanted to make a deeper experience about color and composition, so I left the comic and did two years of painting.Then match my comic experience with my painting experience and that's how the illustration appeared. This was a way of telling a story with a single image, for that reason I call my style "narrative illustration".This profession is something that I have practiced for many years in several countries.Then I worked in videogames as a concept designer and art director. My advantages were that I was familiar with the dynamism of a visual story because of my experience in comics and with the representation of an idea in a single image thanks to my knowledge in painting and illustration, but there I made a lot of experience in the complete design of a project and in the direction of an artistic-creative team. I finally started working in film, and because of its dynamism and the importance of the image in this media, I once again used my previous experiences in comics, painting, illustration and videogames.As you can see there is a common line in all these disciplines and I think that every figurative artist should go through a similar process, although not necessarily identical. In my film work I can see every day the advantages of knowing all these sectors and being able to apply them.


    

以往作品


站酷网:美术总监在一个电影里的职责和角色是什么?

     

契柯尼:美术总监的职责是创造出让一部电影获得高辨识度的视觉画面,建立剧情需要的美感,风格,戏剧效果。每个场景都要有他背后蕴藏的含义,另外,在电影里没有一个场景或风景的设计是随意为之的,就像在一幅好画里,不能出现任何多余的元素。

Chichoni:The rol of aPD is to create the image that will be the recognizable feature of the film, establish the aesthetic, the style, the dramatic tone that the story may contain. Each scene needs a metaphorical treatment, in addition nothing is casual in a scenography or a landscape, not any unnecessary element should be added, as in a good painting. 



站酷网:您参与过很多电影创作涉及很多电影类别,和很多优秀的电影人合作,《乱世情缘》《加勒比海盗4》《环太平洋》《环太平洋2》等,这些优秀的电影和《阿修罗》有什么不同吗?

      

契柯尼:《阿修罗》和我以前参与的科幻、历史或恐怖片都不一样。这是一部史诗般的故事,对我来说设计方面复杂度很高,因为里面有很深层的文化寓意和环境的多元性。从人界到阿修罗界,再到叛军基地,每个世界都完全不一样,非常独特,但是同时它们都为同一个故事服务。

Chichoni:Asura is very different from the Science Fiction, Historical or Horror films in which I participated, this is an epic story and for me it was extremely complex in terms of design because of its deep cultural implications and diversity of environments. We go from Human realm to Asura realm and to the cave of the rebels, each world is completely different and unique, but at the same time they must belong to the same story.



站酷网
:读完《阿修罗》剧本之后,您有什么启发?是怎么把一个架空的世界以及天马行空的创意真实的落实到视觉上的?

  

契柯尼:假如遇上一个不怎么有意思的故事,构建出一个新颖独特的宇宙会挺不容易,但是阿修罗宇宙真是让人思如泉涌。我和张鹏导演只怕脑洞不要开得太大收不住!和导演还有制片人保持良好的关系也是非常重要的。最考验人的一点就是把所有构思设计转化成现实,然后我们得努力解决每一个碰到的难题,而且常常还是大难题。

Chichoni:The way of visualizing a new and original universe can be a very difficult task if the story is not interesting but the Asura universe was so inspiring that the ideas flew freely and with the director Peng Zhang we only had to contain those waters so they did not overflow!The good relationship with the director and the producers was also fundamental in this concern. The great difficulty was to bring to reality everything we had imagine and designed, then we had to work hard looking for solutions to solve each problem, which were sometimes really big.



站酷网:《阿修罗》是您第一次参与中国的电影,这个奇幻片脱胎于东方文化,设定方面好像又能找到西方奇幻的影子,你是如何理解这部作品的世界观设计?你又是怎么在《阿修罗》里表现东方文化的?

契柯尼:显然我不能否认西方的文化背景,但是我对亚洲艺术的热爱也让我对东方文化有一定了解。虽然不敢说对东方文化有很深的认知,但是我家的阅览室里大部分都是东方印度、巴基斯坦,以及中国的艺术和建筑书籍。说到底,没有中国艺术家的帮助,我没有办法设计出一条中国的龙。但是《阿修罗》促使我探索和创造一个和历史事实不紧密连接的崭新世界,所以这里的东方文化的深度会更多体现在抽象的意识体系上,而不是正统的形式上,这点给了我更多的发挥空间。

Chichoni:Obviously I cannot deny my western nature, but the influence of oriental culture comes from my passion for Asian art, and although I do not pretend to have deep knowledge about it, I must say that my personal library is composed mostly of Eastern art and architecture books from India and Pakistan as well as China. Anyway, I could not design a Chinese dragon without the help of a Chinese artist! But Asura pushed me to explore and create completely new worlds that did not necessarily belong to a historical reality, therefore the depth of Eastern culture in this case was more philosophical than formal. This gave me great creative freedom.


    

以往作品


站酷网:从美术概念设计的角度,您怎么理解三头阿修罗王这个角色?

    

契柯尼:关于三头阿修罗王,导演有很特别的想法,而我负责完成这个想法,但本质来说这有相当一部分是服装设计的功劳,它主要出自杰出的服装设计师,奥斯卡获奖者Ngila Dickson之手。

Chichoni:The three heads of Asura King were an idea that the director wanted very specially and I worked in doing it, but marginally since this was rather part of the costumes design work. That was in the hands of the extraordinary costume designer and Oscar winner Ngila Dickson.



站酷网:《阿修罗》你认为最惊艳的场景或画面是什么? 有哪些细节值得我们留意?


 契柯尼
:这部影片里有非常多可以被称之为现象级的惊艳场景设计,比如阿修罗王的宫殿、人界村庄、花露森林等等。我个人特别喜欢叛军山的画面,因为它的复杂和立体性,还有它的庞大的白色树木以及用岩石雕刻而成的建筑。另外,医生实验室也是我最喜欢的场景之一。

Chichoni:There are a large number of scenographies that you could define as phenomenal; obviously King Asura's palace,  the Nectar Forest or the Village, but I especially like the Rebels' cave for its complex and three-dimensional space, for its large white tree and its architecture sculpted in the rock. The rebels lab is also one of my favorite scenographies.


《阿修罗》电影海报


站酷网:《阿修罗》电影的同人大赛正在站酷举办,你平时会关注同人创作吗?你期待看到什么样的作品?


契柯尼:是的,我会关注。因为我以前是一个插画师,所以我很自然地就会去关注电影的海报,但必须承认我不喜欢当下所有的电影海报。我认为海报不应该只包括一个有识别度、有特色的电影画面,海报还应该包括一个能告诉我们故事的意义的视觉暗喻。色彩应该传达电影的戏剧性,也应该和电影原色调匹配。同时,海报的构图应该让我们能清晰地看到这些元素。但是如果画面不具有美感,这些都是空谈。

Chichoni:Yes, I naturally watch the posters of the films and this is due because my past as an illustrator, and I must say that I do not always like them. I believe that a poster should not only contain a recognizable and characteristic image of the film, it should also contain a visual metaphor that tells us the meaning of the story. The color will tell us about its dramatic sense and should match the original color of the film. At the same time, the composition will allow us to clearly read all these elements. But nothing would work if the image was not made with beauty.


    

以往作品


站酷网:您觉得一个合格的电影概念设计师,应该具备哪些能力?


契柯尼:一个好的电影概念设计师应该知道怎么设计,而首先就是得会画。好的画功是设计的基本工具,也会帮助故事有一个准确的视觉呈现。还有其他因素,比如对设计艺术史的深刻了解,以及拥有观察身边一切的好奇心和敏锐洞察力。我们可以把所有这些数据存在脑子里,记忆像是一个有着无限容量的硬盘,接下来的问题就是运用这些知识来进行设计,而这只有一个办法:最大限度地自由发挥你的创意。对大部人来说,这是最难的。

Chichoni:A good concept artist must know how to design and for this he must know how to draw. Good drawing is a fundamental tool to design and for a correct visual representation of the story.But there are other elements; a good knowledge of the history of art, of architecture, of design and to develop a great curiosity and a keen capacity to observe everything that surrounds us.

We can accumulate all these data in our mind, the memory is a hard disk of an almost infinite capacity, the problem then is to apply all this knowledge in design and that is achieved with only one thing, is to do it with maximum creative freedom. For most people that is the most difficult thing to do.

     

以往作品:Environments—Film&Video Games(图源自官网)


站酷网:你觉得现在的电影行业给从业者的机会是不是更大?对想从事电影行业,或从事概念设计的新人有什么建议?


契柯尼:我认为电影行业有很多可能性。随着新媒体的出现,机会比以前大大增加了,但也因为新媒体,竞争变得非常激烈。成千上万和新媒体产业有关的艺术家都在电影行业寻找机会,这样的竞争环境以及新兴科学和技术的发展,将新晋电影从业者的水平提到了一个空前的高度。

但电影行业里也存在着一种标准化,很多艺术家太相似了。唯一的解决办法在我前一个问题已经提到了:“要有对艺术史,建筑史,设计史的深刻了解,加上强烈的好奇心和敏锐的洞察力,你就能够自由地运用这些知识进行艺术创作。”

Chichoni:I think there are many possibilities in the film industry. With the new media, opportunities have multiplied infinitely, but for this same reason today competition is very hard. There are thousands and thousands of artists around the world who can connect with this industry in search of an opportunity. This struggle has made the quality of new creators reach an extraordinary level in the use of new techniques and technologies.This very competitive enviroment of new techniques and technologies give to the creators an extraordinary level of quality. But there is also a kind of standard and most of these artists are too similar. The only solution is already in my previous answer "a good knowledge of art history, architecture, design and development of curiosity and observation capacity to then be able to apply all this knowledge with maximum creative freedom".





《寻找阿修罗王》活动现已公示:https://www.zcool.com.cn/event/asura/

奥斯卡 · 契柯尼(Oscar Chichoni)官网:https://chichoni.com




专访记者:米饭殿下         视觉设计:海边的卡夫卡          整理:八尺大人




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